The Implications Of "Victory"

At the beginning of the Iraq War the threat was well defined: Search for WMD and when found take it out. But to achieve this task, we had to destroy the Iraqi army and its government along the way.

In the aftermath of the Iraq "WMD campaign", our mission focus shifted to nation building, which really meant the forced acceptance of our "Democratic" cultural values (229 years in the making) onto a people in a region with it own cultural values backed by a theocracy over 1000 years old!

How do we define and measure "victory" in this post WMD Campaign?

Is "victory" defined as the Iraqi acceptance of all or some of our Democratic ideals?

How long will this "victory" take?

Given the demonstrated instability of the region, we may have to remain there to ensure that our "victory" remains intact after we declare its achievement. And, if the 40 year Israeli/Palestinian conflict is any indication, we may have to remain there indefinitely.

Some may even see shades of the Christian Crusades here, i.e. an unfortunate repetition of a historical process due to the failure of our leadership to recognize it from the early history of Western civilization.

Without a realistic definition of "victory", how many more Americans will have to die, how much more national treasure will have to be spent and our national future jeopardized by even more monstrous debt before "victory" is finally achieved?

Is it realistic to spread the dream of Democracy to countries that are either under theocratic and/or despotic control? If you governed one of these countries, how would you react when your closest neighbor has just been subjected to a foreign incursion by the West with the definite possibility of your country being next?

Perhaps its time for our national leaders to admit that this pre-emptive war a mistake, perhaps they should accept full responsibility and live with the consequences (foreign and domestic) after our troops have been brought home.

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Democracy and Cultures

Quote:
I've said it before - probably on this website: Democracy might be as foreign and undesirable to Iraq as feudalism would be to us. My Iraqi epal says, "Democracy? Hmmm.... Interesting idea. If Iraqi people want it, we will have it."

That ´s it. Democracy in not a concept for every culture.

www.ProPeace.de/phpBB2/login.php

Re: The Implications Of "Victory"

Quote:
But to achieve this task, we had to destroy the Iraqi army and its government along the way

... and to kill thousands of innocent men, women and children.

Apart from destroying Iraq, Sadam and his governement what did you reach? and what are you going to reach?

Do you really believe in WAR FOR PEACE?

The Form of Democracy

I've said it before - probably on this website: Democracy might be as foreign and undesirable to Iraq as feudalism would be to us. My Iraqi epal says, "Democracy? Hmmm.... Interesting idea. If Iraqi people want it, we will have it."

Too often, democracy has been equated with freedom. They are not synonyms. One is not prerequisite to the other. I am currently deep in study of a report (summary and links will follow) that finds the highest level of "democracy" (they mean human rights, civil liberties, and lack of corruption) in the scandinavian countries. But hold it! I don't know about the others, but I lived in Denmark (rated in the top three) for two years, and they have a "socialist monarchy." Imagine that! Human rights, civil liberties, and lack of corruption within a government that's totally unlike ours....

What's happening here is that we are starting to realize that imperialism can be ideological as well as economic. Imperialism - not theocracy, monarchy or communism - is the unjust underlying policy that has put us in our present predicament.

"Blue in a Red State"

it depends

What "victory" is depends on who is declaring it. For those who have not evolved beyond their greed and lust for power, the present situation might be just what was intended (consciously or not).

"Victory" implies that another has been "defeated". Peace and democracy cannot be forced upon a culture from the outside through domination. The culture must evolve from within toward peace and democracy. Our best option, if we feel we must, is to facilitate this unfolding non-violently and non-coercively.

Similarly we cannot evolve governance beyond patterns of domination, subordination and violence by using political retribution. Our best option is to fearlessly speak whatever truth we know, without a pointed finger. Human beings are more likely to evolve if they feel safe, unaccused and supported in their unfolding process.

From the propeace perspective the defeated cannot be people, either in a foreign land or in our own government. The real "battle" is virtue versus vice. What we seek to "defeat" must be fear, delusion, greed, blockage to truth. These "foes" are beyond the reach of, and in fact are aided by the improper use of, weapons and military might.

Victory*Freedom

There is no victory in war, just as there is no democracy in occupied lands, the oppressed of the Americas suffer the same acts of proclaimed victory as all others have and will, one can neither claim victory nor freedom from the spoils of war, one is merely the oppressor.

BL*M

global-luvolution.blogspot.com

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